LETTER: Democrats, Liberals Rebel Against God’s Word

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After reading the ESTEEMED Sue Patrick letter and three other letters in which all were so concerned with the name calling about the democratic party and liberals being in rebellion to God’s Word.

I will do my best to list some examples of why I as an individual view democrats and liberals as being in rebellion to God’s Word.

Revert yourself back to the letter to the editor October 26, 2010 in which the individual said abortion is not murder because a zygote is not a person.

Readers please read: Jeremiah Chapter 1, verse 5.

democrats & liberals holds the idea that abortion should be legal even up to the last trimester.

Readers please read: Luke Chapter 1 Verse 21

democrats & liberals believes in same sex marriage.

Readers please read: Genesis Chapter 1 verses 27 & 28.

Readers please read: Genesis Chapter 2 verses 18 & 24.

democrats & liberals believes we should allow gambling.

Gambling is first and foremost a moral issue. There was a time in American society when the majority of people considered gambling to be wrong.

Obviously, times, circumstances and culture have changed. But God and His Word have not.

His Word warns that those who do not respect His will, and who choose to live life according to fleshly desires will spend eternity in the fires of hell (Revelation 21:8).

A genuine  Christian is the one who eliminates from daily life the vice and immorality that is  characteristic of a society that continually desires to abandon God’s will. Instead of “going along” with such a society, he or she studies the Bible in order to learn how God would have people to live.

democrats & liberals believes we should legalize Beer, Liquor and pot sales for the revenue.

Readers please read: 1St Corinthians Chapter 5 verse 11.

Readers please read: 1St Corinthians Chapter 6 verse 10.

Look our county just voted to legalize the making of liquor; I for one have no idea who voted yes for this but I would be willing to say half of these voters will be setting on a pew Sunday in Church.

Readers please read: 1st Thessalonians Chapter 5 verse 22.

democrats & liberals believes all should love each other live in civility and agree with them on everything.

Readers please read: Proverbs Chapter 19 verse 1

Readers please read: Proverbs Chapter 21 verse 2

democrat, liberal, and judges eliminated prayer in schools.

Readers please read: Matthew Chapter 11 verse 1-4

democrats & liberals feel that the government should control all aspects of our life.

Look at the school system, where the parents have to tell what their child weighs.

Schools will not let the Bible be read in school.

Readers please read: Proverbs Chapter 22 verse 6

One letter suggests that you should not judge

Readers please read: Matthew Chapter 7 verse 15 -23

A Christian may be a democrat if he so chooses to be BUT.

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments:

For this is the whole duty of man.

Paul Alexander
Bradyville, TN
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November 21, 2010 at 8:03am
esteemed Sue Patrick – appreciate, value, hold in high regard

“ESTEEMED Sue Patrick”–derogatory way to show disdain, disregard, disparage and disrespect

“A Christian may be a democrat if he so chooses BUT”

but - except, save for

“BUT” - another way to look down on, reject with contempt, those with different views

Self-righteous - -righteous in his own regard, pharisaical, excessively or hypocritically pious
November 21, 2010 at 9:17am
Hell will be full of republicans and democrats and preachers.I dont claim to be a
saint. I let good lord decide who goes to heaven or hell.But while iam here I will vote DEMOCRAT the party that has moved this country forward not backwards. David Mingle
auburntown rd.
November 21, 2010 at 11:08am
I consider this whole rationale a waste of time. This is best served at a local church. This is a sermon. Nothing here is joyous or motivationally uplifting.

This is a contentious letter that only applies to those people who see the Christian perspective and the Bible in similar views...

This letter only advocates division.

Just stop with the religion and politics at the same time.

This is how crusades and self righteous violence, bigotry and social limitations are conceptualized.

I am not better than you, you are not better than me no matter how much you support your cause...

November 21, 2010 at 12:47pm
Paul, I have known you almost 30 years and this is about as far off the deep end as I have ever seen you. If you wrote this to get a reaction from people you have accomplished what you set out to do.
Blame individuals for doing these things that you enumerated above,do not generalize all the democrats and liberals. Democrats and Republicans are organizations; an individual might call himself a democrat and not think like those in charge do. Everyone who is a christian knows what the Bible says, there are those in charge who are not Christian. Be careful in what you say Paul when you group Christians and politics together.
It is the constitution that guarantees your right to spew this trash out of your mouth. A christian should be someone who will spread the word of God and give a good example of Him; in doing that others will want to find out exactly what a christian is and try to be like Christ. Your words were condescending to others therefore your words were offensive to me as a Christian and adverse to Gods' teaching. Be careful about casting that first stone.
Bob Stoetzel
Woodbury TN.
November 21, 2010 at 1:51pm
Paul,,, you are not to judge. Where did you get your degree in preaching? I totaly disagree with you.
November 21, 2010 at 2:08pm
Love your neighbor and foregive your neighbor! James Adkins
November 21, 2010 at 3:51pm
Mr Davenport’s: “I can’t understand the reasoning behind abortion. Murder is OK, if it is called a choice.” “We have criminals behind bars for killing people...and we turn around and kill an unborn child.”

Mr Studd’s: “in a full rebellion against God Almighty”... “They are thumbing their nose and pointing their fist and celebrating everything He calls an abomination...that live in rebellion to God and pass legislation that is in rebellion to God”... ”Our Christian heritage is being stomped on.”

And now Mr Alexander's:(Democrats/liberals) "who choose to live life according to fleshly desires (by his definition) will spend eternity in the fires of hell"

Begs the question--is there a Republican, one that has been around here for sometime, who will come forward and condemn such bigotry and self-righteousness?

November 21, 2010 at 6:49pm
Mr Alexander conveniently forgot to include 1st Corinthians, Chapter 5, verses 12 and 13:

"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the Church? Are you not to judge those outside? God will judge those outside. Expel the sicked man from you."

Does Mr Alexander attend the Midway Church of Christ? Is he a member, elder or deacon?
November 21, 2010 at 8:12pm
Interesting how you group all dems and libs in one basket. Maybe you should be grouped together with catholic christians, and all the other groups of christians. Im sure you dont want to be demonized every time the republican leaders make an immoral stance. You are obviously upset with the way things are going. Dont forget, God chooses the leaders of the world, so even if you dont agree with them you need to remember it was Gods will that they be there as part of his plan.
November 21, 2010 at 10:26pm
The Jesus I read about spoke of compassion and love, not of judgement and hatred. When will people realize that hatred of people based upon their beliefs, color, who they choose to sleep with, income, health status, size, age and a myriad of other measurements is a waste of time and energy.

If people spent half as much time on loving thy neighbor and helping to build a happier, healthier, loving community as they spend on judging and tearing others apart based upon a book which whose meaning and content has been edited and changed far too many times to mention, we would accomplish much more..
November 22, 2010 at 9:56am
I think this man thinks he is ready to take GOD's job...as he is so perfect and has lived his life without sin! haha
November 22, 2010 at 1:24pm
Mr. Alexander is not an Elder Deacon or Christian in addition he does not attend Midway however, I know for a fact that he is a very moral man in regards to beliefs on abortion, murder, same sex marriage, gambling, etc. He is far from perfect but he does have strong beliefs on subjects listed in his previous letter
November 22, 2010 at 3:02pm
Obviously there are a lot of strong opinions here. One thing that seems hypocritical to me is that many churches say that gambling is wrong or a sin but when I took my son to tour a major Church of Christ University the financial aid office was giving out applications for the lottery scholarship.
Well, I am reminded of something my uncle used to say. He was a beer distributor and when he made a donation to the church he said "this money has worked for the devil so now let's let it work for the Lord"!
November 22, 2010 at 4:34pm
dailyreader I have asked you politely to not include me in any of the comments you write on this site unless they are factual.

At no time have I ever called anyone out on their religion, nor will I ever. I have my beliefs, you have yours and everyone else has theirs. I am fine with that. No one has to answer to me and I am certainly not their judge when it comes to their relationship with God because of politics, attendance, the denomination they attend, money they contribute or any other religious matter.

Nor do I want to be.

I believe abortion to be murder. And I believe the laws that exist in our country contradict each other concerning abortion. But at no point have I ever wrote or brought up the subject of anyone's religion in reference to abortion. So quit lying and misrepresenting quotes that are not true.

If you can't be a man and call me on the phone and discuss it, then don't hide behind your pen name and bring my name up in anything you write. I will gladly make time to debate anything with you if you want to talk.

If all you want to do is argue then you are wasting time and energy and accomplishing nothing.

And to answer your question, I am a Republican. And NO, I don't think forums like this do any good to promote what a Christian should be or what the Bible tells us how God wants us to act. 99% of the people writing (like yourself) are so off topic to what the article is actually about, the comments get lost in translation.

And the sooner you see you are part of that problem, the quicker we could all learn to try and reach a middle ground instead bickering about who said what and how wrong they are and who is the greatest Republicans or Democrats.

I guess I have to ask this question: If anyone reading this site was dying of cancer would any of this nonsense matter? Would any of you care who was right or who was wrong? I doubt it very seriously!

And dailyreader my name is Corey. Not "Mr. Davenport".

What's your real name?
November 22, 2010 at 7:35pm
Mr Davenport, every word came from the Courier article, October 19, 2010 as reported by Tony Stinnett, Courier Co-Editor.

If you have been misquoted and did not say those words then, I will readily say "Mr. Davenport has said those words were not his. I believe him and will no longer attribute those words to him."

Once an individual assumes the public stage and comments to a Co-Editor of a newspaper, openly and not off the record, about how he feels, then it seems he would not mind being quoted as actually saying that in a public venue.

I will quote for you the entire paragraph as written in the Courier:

"Personally, Obamacare is a hot topic right now but from my standpoint it's a moral issue." said Corey Davenport, elected the Republican party secretary. "I am a conservative and I can't understand the reasoning behind abortion. Murder is OK, if it's called a choice but if is not a choice it is not OK. We have criminals behind bars for killing people yet we never talk about victim's rights and we can turn around and kill an unborn child. That's big for me. The economy is the major factor."

For the sake of brevity, I did not repeat every word in the above post, but what I did quote was as factual as the article.

This was the same meeting in which Co-Editor Tony Stinnett said in part the "Republican Party ...effectively began its mission...seemingly one of good vs. evil."

Murder is OK if an abortion, therefore those who abort are murderers--people go to prison for killing---and we turn around and kill an unborn child.

Seems a rather harsh indictment for those who either have an abortion or support those who do.
I have supported a woman's choice (an unfortunate victim of date rape), and flown to an another state for that young lady to have an abortion. Honestly now, was the woman I accompanied a murderer and am I guilty of aiding an abetting a murderer?
November 22, 2010 at 9:17pm
"By: robertalexander on 11/22/10
Mr. Alexander is not an Elder Deacon or Christian in addition he does not attend Midway however, I know for a fact that he is a very moral man in regards to beliefs on abortion, murder, same sex marriage, gambling, etc. He is far from perfect but he does have strong beliefs on subjects listed in his previous letter""

Mr Alexander is not a Christian and yet he says "A genuine Christian is the one who eliminates from daily life the vice and immorality that is characteristic of a society that continually desires to abandon God’s will. Instead of “going along” with such a society, he or she studies the Bible in order to learn how God would have people to live."

How would he know that a "genuine Christian is one who eliminates......."?????

Seems like only a "genuine" Christian would know what a genuine Christian eliminates.
November 23, 2010 at 6:54am
dailyreader I am not sure what part you didn't understand because I never denied saying abortion was murder and that I disagreed with it. Nor did I say I was misquoted by Tony.

I said at no time have I ever brought anyone's religion into anything I have said or wrote. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to berate people on what they believe and why they believe it. How they choose to live their lives is entirely up to them and I am not their judge.

You personally bring everyone's religion into your comments. You personally chastise anyone who does not believe the way you think they should believe and you personally quote scripture while openly confessing to be an atheist. And then you turn around and condem the people who write the aritcles for doing the same thing.

You are by the very definition a hypocrite.

How do you justify condemning anyone for what they write and then turn around and do the exact same thing?

You are not trying to debate and you are not trying to find a middle ground. You are simply trying to stir the pot (or smoke it), I am not sure which one.

And to top it all off, you are hiding behind a fictious pen name and are too big of a coward to come out and tell everyone who the great and almighty dailyreader truly is.

Come on, be a man. If your name is Robert, Bob or John just say so. If your last name is Smith, Jones or Dillon, don't be afraid to tell your name. Everyone knows you live in Murfreesboro, we aren't going to come and visit you. We just want to be amazed by your greatness.

Surely you, with all of your great knowledge and wisdom, aren't afraid to tell people your name.

November 23, 2010 at 8:57am
Mr Davenport, may I quote you from one of your previous posts?

"You have no morals, you are an aethist" (11/17/10)

A lack of morals means that one is immoral. Immoral means lewd, indecent, lustful and obscene--just for starters.

An atheist is one who does not believe in God and denies the existence of God.

Now may I repeat what you said above: "I said at no time have I ever brought anyone's religion into anything I have said or wrote. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to berate people on what they believe and why they believe it. How they choose to live their lives is entirely up to them and I am not their judge."

November 23, 2010 at 10:51am
I didn't condemn you, I stated a fact based on your own admission.

Stating facts that you freely admit is totally different from judging you on something I don't know anything about, which is what you do.

I didn't bring your religion into anything, YOU did when you went on a rant about being an atheist.

If I tell you I am five feet 11 inches and weigh 205 lbs and you quote me on that then that is fact. If you choose to tell everyone I am 6 foot 4 inches and weigh 350 that is a lie and a misrepresentation of the truth if I have never made such a statement.

You freely admit everything anyone has said about your morals and your beilief in God. That is on you buddy, not me. So don't complain when someone uses it in a comment against you.

Also, I am flattered you are keeping everything I have ever written just so you can go back and quote me.

And I still see you don't have the guts to tell everyone who you really are. Come on Bob or Robert or John. Give it up unless you are scared.
November 23, 2010 at 3:20pm
"Play it once, Sam. For old times' sake.

I don't know what you mean, Miss Elsa.

Play it, Sam. Play "As Time Goes By."

Notice the article after this one is about "bullying", so here is a little cyber bullying: "don't have the guts...you are hiding...be a man...unless you are scared...too big of a coward"

Sounds exactly like the bullies in the school system who go around saying the same things. Most teachers have some special names for those who do this.

When all else fails, and you don't like the message, kill the messenger.

November 23, 2010 at 4:39pm
Wow I didn't understand rachel or dailyreader with either of those posts.

Wonder why? Possibly because both are the same person?

November 23, 2010 at 6:04pm
corey, why do you even care who reader is or as far as that goes, who anyone on here is? unless you want to stalk them...and i agree with what has been said, you ARE trying to be a bully. since you can't successfully win a war of words, you want to try and do it in person.

have you ever had blackouts from anger or rage? or have you ever been accused of being angry and you felt that you had to prove them wrong? there are many other warnings signs of anger problems. google it.

you are so obsessed with reader that you want so bad to believe that reader is the only one that disagrees with you.
November 23, 2010 at 6:44pm
Play nice children or you will have to go to time out
November 24, 2010 at 6:54am
hensondelbert I think you guys are funny. I think all of you are the same person and have a lot of free time on your hands.

To the contrary, dailyreader is the one obsessed with me apprently since he is keeping all of my comments to quote them in every article ever written on this site. Scroll up to the top of this page and see who wrote about who first. I didn't get into this mess until after 14 comments had already been made.

And I am also not sure where you don't see how you and rachel are "stalking" dailyreader as you say, seeing how you follow him around to article after article defending him against anyone who disagrees with him.

And if you knew me, instead of thinking you know me, you would know that I am one of the nicest, friendliest people you have ever been around. I am a funny dude as well. So the bullying part is a hoot!

I think it is extremely funny that the guy who has an opinion on everything (dailyreader), who constantly calls people names (dailyreader), who have done nothing but try to berate people for disagreeing with them (dailyreader, rachel and you), his followers who call people fools, bullies and immoral(rachel and you) have the opinion that I am the bully.

I didn't realize calling him a coward for not identifying himself and being proud about what he wrote would be so mortifying for him. I would say the same about you and rachel, but I am afraid the split personalities you share with each other might cause you all to implode.

I am done. You all have a Happy Thanksgiving and I will see you in another article sometime soon I am sure.

Fred, I am always nice. You have a good Thanksgiving as well.
November 24, 2010 at 12:10pm
When a Tea Party wannaber (that is what he sounded like to me) started posting comments with his name attached on various web sites, I asked a number of older Cannon Countians, who had seen them come and go, for their opinion of that individual.

Almost of the responses began by: "a know it all or thinks he does or smart aleck(there was another similar, but I will not repeat.)

When you look at the personality traits of those who come across that way you will generally also find a strong tendency to browbeat or intimidate those with whom they disagree.


Six lines from Casablanca appeared in the AFI's movie quotes poll, the most of any film (Gone with the Wind and The Wizard of Oz were tied with three apiece). The others were: "Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship." (20th), "Play it, Sam. Play 'As Time Goes By.'" (28th), "Round up the usual suspects." (32nd), "We'll always have Paris." (43rd), and "Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine."

"Here's looking at you kid."

Thanks, rachel.

November 24, 2010 at 6:09pm
I thought he was a Mitch McConnell wannabe.
November 24, 2010 at 6:49pm
In a nutshell, this is what the writer states:

• democrats & liberals hold the idea that abortion should be legal even up to the last trimester.

• democrats & liberals believe in same sex marriage.

• democrats & liberals believe we should allow gambling.

• democrats & liberals believe we should legalize Beer, Liquor and pot sales for the revenue.

• democrats & liberals believe all should love each other live in civility and agree with them on everything.

• democrats, liberals, and judges eliminated prayer in schools.

• democrats & liberals feel that the government should control all aspects of our life.

Now, am I to understand that he has pegged democrats and liberals erroneously? If so, how so?
November 24, 2010 at 8:02pm
"I am pro-choice and for less government control."

You have illustrated why the notion of political civility is likely a fantasy rachel. I am pro-life and for less government control. We start out at 50/50 on two key issues. That's a stalemate, so the debate will continue.
November 24, 2010 at 8:02pm
Mr. Alexander might have said all that Kevin, but that doesn't mean it is true. I would rather be a democrat than a hypocrite. Besides there is no law saying we have to be christian or any other religion. And for that mater there are many different sects of Christianity. A lot of whom don't even think of catholics as christians.
Happy Thanksgiving to All, believers or not.
November 24, 2010 at 8:10pm
bolo, Mr. Alexander thinks what he says is true. No person develops thoughts without outside influence. There are people who agree with him. There are people who don't. There are people who agree with him on some things, but not others.
November 25, 2010 at 12:56am
Mr. Halpern,

I believe the problem is not so much with the accusation, it is with the bigotry that comes along with it.

Myself, I do not think homosexual practices are moral. But then again, neither do I think lusting after someone of the opposite moral either.

A main gripe I have with Republicans is that they "spotlight sins" so to speak, which they like to go on and on about. Typically, certain sins have light excessively shined on them in this way because whoever happens to be voicing an opinion against them does not personally struggle with such sins. Hence, many straight men will sit around with their buddies and talk about how wicked and ungodly "faggots" are, and then turn right around and talk about how much they want to have sex with whatever attractive woman that comes on the television screen. It is very easy to codemn what you personally do not struggle with.

I think the same can be said about abortion. I personally think that abortion is an immoral practice. But there are many factors involved much of the time. What would you honestly do, if your 17 year old daughter had been raped and became pregnant? That's a hard thing to put on another person, and in my mind it's terribly dangerous to judge another in such a situation. On the other hand, I do think it is sad that our society has fostered the particular attitude they have toward unborn children. Many people are not able to get pregnant naturally, and I believe that the ability to conceive and have a child is one of God's greatest gifts. But our society has such a distorted view on sex, it leads to a degraded and spoiled view on conception. There is no sanctity in sex as such. It is seen merely as a means of pleasure - a sheer physical exercise. Some even go so far as to make the argument that it is "normal" to be promiscuous, and that the human (and more often the male) body "needs" sexual fulfillment. This many times leads to women being looked upon as objects of pleasure. John Paul II spoke a lot against the "objectifaction" of other individuals, specifically that of the woman by the man. What happens is that the man stops looking at the woman as a "person," and instead starts looking at her as a means to an end. In other words, the human being becomes simply a tool of pleasure. This, of course, does not always happen to women, but by and large it is mostly the case. And then the woman gets pregnant and the man, getting what he wanted, leaves. On top of that, suppose the man had been begging the woman for months to have sex with him, promising her all sorts of empty things like "love." When she comes to him, scared but a little excited too and tells him she's pregnant, he disappears. This is why I think the issue is not always so black and white, and personally do not feel right in "spotlighting" abortion.

The thing about supporting a law is that you effectively bind another person's conscience to your particular belief system. I think this is particularly dangerous in the case of sins in which a person has no experience dealing with, for the simple fact that such a thing becomes "spotlighting."

I do take issue then with your generalizations. I will repeat them here in kind, and respond one by one with my personal opinion.

• democrats & liberals hold the idea that abortion should be legal even up to the last trimester.

Respond: This may be so. I am ignorant on the specifics of abortion, and when it is and is not legal. Personally, I think it a tragedy when the life of an uborn child is "aborted." I am not sure, however, I could with a clear conscience endorse a law "commanding" under penalty that a 17 year old girl who was raped have a child.

• democrats & liberals believe in same sex marriage.

Respond: A democrat may personally view same sex marriage as sinful (just like he views watching pornography, gluttony, and various sexual fetishes), and yet still hold that the government ought to play no role in imposing religion onto the country. If this was a religious institution - say a church - the democrat may very well say, from a religious standpoint, he disagrees and does not sanction such things, citing scripture, tradition, etc. This would, for example, be my response to a dear friend of mine who happened to be gay if he asked me what I thought about same-sex relationships. I would say, since he was asking my view, that first I loved him, but that I did not think it was right to engage in such things, and that, if I had a son of my own, struggling with such things, I would tell him the very same. I would further go on to say that I am no different than he and that I thought no less of him, for neither of us can control who or what we are attracted to. I would finally tell him that I am not Jesus Christ, and that I think he ought to pray about it and make the decision before the Almighty.

Straight people often act like they "made" themselves like people of the opposite sex. In my personal opinion, all people - myself included - ought to fight against temptations of the felsh. But I cannot in a clear conscience agree to make my religious view a "national law."

• democrats & liberals believe we should allow gambling.

I am unaware of any scriptural verses which prohibit the type of "gambling" which helps fund many student's college, so I'm not even sure why this is an issue with Repubs. But in this area I am open to criticism and would gladly learn.

• democrats & liberals believe we should legalize Beer, Liquor and pot sales for the revenue.

I have never understood the arguments against legalizing alcohol from any perspective, scriptural or otherwise. I personally believe alcohol to be one of God's gifts, which, like so many other of his blessings, can be either enjoyed in moderation or abused. Concerning pot: I've not made up my mind on the issue, and again would gladly learn.

• democrats & liberals believe all should love each other live in civility and agree with them on everything.

I don't see how this is relevant, unless it is a jab that democrats never want to admit they are wrong. Even if that is true, it would not help toward solving the disagreements on hand, so I'm not taking the bait.

• democrats, liberals, and judges eliminated prayer in schools.

Would you want the government to stop school 5 times a day and face east to pray to Allah? Prayer is a very personal practice, and, so long as a school is being run by the(hopefully) neutral institution of the government, I think it is good such things are not imposed. If you want your children to pray, pray with them and your family at your home. Or you could take them to church to pray (although, sadly, in many Churches today prayer seems to divide more than unite.) Or you could enroll them in a private school if you would like the school system to also teach your children religion.

• democrats & liberals feel that the government should control all aspects of our life.

This is extreme, to say the least. First of all, how could it be true, given the fact that in the preceding point, you say they want to abandon public prayer in school? That is less control, not more. And I think it is a very good thing. It promotes the right to pursue the truth and religion independently. After all, would you want your children to be forced by the school system to read the Koran? Aside from that, I do think you have a point in that democrats want the government more active in many things, but I think that's a good thing in the case of healthcare, loans and funding, foodstamps, etc.

November 25, 2010 at 10:29am
i'm a democrat and i'm guilty as charged...but correct me if i'm wrong...it seems mr. alexander wants MORE government intervention and control of our lives.

no abortions=more govt control

no gambling revenue(except when used for little johnny's education)=more govt control

no same sex marriage=more govt control

no alcohol/pot revenue=more govt control

prayer in school(but, must pray like we do since we know the mind of God and heaven is a Red state)=more govt control

henceforth i extrapolate: republicans=more govt control

and more govt control=less freedom to live my life the way i see fit under a God of MY understanding. say what you want, but no doubt this country was founded on, among other things, the principle of religious freedom.

furthermore, i do feel we are challenged to live with each other in a civil manner and i would be like mr. alexander if i thought you should agree with me about everything.

lastly, my online webster's gives a definition of government as the executive offices responsible for the direction and supervision of public affairs. unfortunately, for mr alexander, this doesn't mean just inside the bubble of cannon county.
November 26, 2010 at 10:50am
pcm2f, that was a very well organized opinion thank you for the insight. On religion in school I used to get mad because I just naturally thought by taking prayer out of school that it was an attack against Christians. However if they said that Christians and Christians only could prayer then it would be a State run" religion like in England of days of old. But being America every religion could demand time in teaching their own idea of religion and as you have mentioned above we would be facing east several times a day. So after so many years since Madelyn O'Hare I have finally realized that we should leave the religion to parents and clergy.
Bob Stoetzel
November 28, 2010 at 3:16pm
Dear Mr. Alexander, I enjoyed reading your opinion. I read every verse that you asked me to. You bring up several issues:

Abortion: Legally, the word ‘person’ as used in the Fourteenth Amendment does not include the unborn (Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113, 93 S.Ct. 705, 729, 35 L.Ed.2d 147). Therefore, on one level it is accurate to say that a zygote (or an embryo or fetus) is not a legal person. However, an unborn child is a ‘person’ for some other legal purposes, such as personal injury or wrongful death. So, there is more than one way to look at the personhood of the unborn.

As far as the Bible goes, Jeremiah 1:5 may be interpreted one way or the other. You imply that the Bible is “God’s Word.” I don’t know whether you are among those who call the Bible infallible. In my opinion, the Bible was written by fallible men who used lots of metaphor, storytelling, parable and myth. I can’t seem to make consistent sense of infallibility. Nor can I understand how every verse can be literally true. I see plenty of room for interpretation. Jeremiah 1:5 says, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you….” That may (or may not) reveal the writer’s belief in a spiritual pre-existence, but it says nothing to me about Roe v. Wade.

You ask your readers to read Luke 1:21. It says, “Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Zechariah and wondering why he stayed so long in the temple.” I don’t understand how this verse applies to your topic of conversation. Is your reference a misprint? (Aha! You must have meant Luke 2:21. Well, I don’t see what it has to do with abortion either.)

Same-sex Marriage: You asked your readers to read Genesis 1:27-28, in which the gods are supposed to have created males and females and told them to be fruitful and increase. Well, don’t you think we’ve been a little too fruitful? Aren’t there too many people on this planet in the 21st Century? I don’t think the human race will dwindle too badly if people are allowed to marry within their own sex. We are not in danger of losing all our breeders.

Genesis 2:18,24 states as a general rule that men should be united to their wives. It doesn’t say that there should be no exceptions to the rule. Paul preferred the single life, for example. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

Gambling: The verse you cited, Revelation 21:8, says nothing about gambling. I agree that gambling is a stupid way to try to increase one’s money. I agree that there are moral and ethical reasons not to gamble in excess. But if a non-addict gambles just for fun, I see no harm in it. If the “fires of hell” is your best argument, it fails to convince me.

Alcohol & Pot: You asked your readers to read 1 Corinthians 5:11 and 6:10, which seem to disapprove of drunkards. These verses say nothing about using alcohol or pot in moderation. 1 Thessalonians 5:22 very generally tells us to “avoid every kind of evil,” but you have not demonstrated that alcohol or pot are evil, per se. As a matter of fact, people called Jesus a winebibber, and for good reason. He enjoyed his wine! And who knows? If pot had been available to him, he might have toked a few. Remember, Jesus said that it’s not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man; what comes out of the mouth (words) is what defiles a man. In other words, a blanket condemnation of alcohol may be more evil than moderate consumption.

Civility: I don’t know any democrat or liberal who says we need to agree on everything, as you claim. Proverbs 19:1 says, “Better a poor man whose walk is blameless than a fool whose lips are perverse.” This passage cuts both ways. Between the conservative and the liberal, which is blameless and which is the perverse fool? That’s a matter of opinion. The truth is, you’ll find people of either stripe on both sides of the aisle.

Proverbs 21:2 says, “All a man’s ways seem right to him, but Yahweh weighs the heart.” This proverb, too, says nothing about democrats or liberals.

Enforced Prayer (e.g. in schools): I am very, very grateful for the First Amendment! An individual’s prayer life is a private thing. I, for one, don’t want the government forcing people to pray. I don’t understand what Matthew 11:1-4 has to do with it. Is that another mistaken reference?

Control All Aspects: You claim, “democrats & liberals feel that government should control all aspects of our life.” What!? I think you’ve been listening to too much right-wing propaganda. Your claim is completely untrue. In fact, liberals seem to be more likely than conservatives to “live and let live.” Look, for example, at your own objections. Liberals are more likely to allow individuals the choice of abortion; conservatives are more likely to deny such personal responsibility. Liberals are more likely to allow people to choose for themselves whether to drink alcohol or smoke pot; conservatives are more likely to remove such choices from the table. Liberals are more likely to allow individuals to choose whether to pray or not; conservatives are more likely to force children to pray and read religious books they don’t believe in. Liberals are more likely to leave gambling to personal decision; conservatives are more likely to outlaw it for everyone. Liberals are more likely to allow people to marry the person they love; conservatives are more likely to deny certain people equal rights.

So, tell me again, who are the control freaks?

What’s the objection to having students report their weight?

What’s the objection to having a student follow the curriculum instead of bringing in extraneous material, such as the Bible? There are circumstances in which the Bible can be studied in schools, but it’s not always appropriate.

Proverbs 22:6 says, “Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.” Excellent advice. A child should know the proper time to do all things. There’s a time for math, a time for science, a time for English, etc. That time is during the school day. There’s also a time for religious training. That time is outside of public school, when the government cannot interfere.

Judgment: There is proper judgment and improper judgment. You have rightly pointed out Matthew 7:15-23 as an example of proper judgment. We should judge every religious preacher or dogma. It might be good, or it might be poison. A wise individual judges for himself what is true and what is false. (By the way, this passage encourages us to freely interpret the Bible, rather than take it as completely literal and infallible.)

Improper judgment is described just a few verses earlier in Matthew 7:1-6 (Judge not, that you be not judged, etc.). Happy is the person who learns the difference between proper and improper judgment, and who rules his or her life accordingly. These passages apply equally to conservatives and liberals, Republicans and Democrats.

Conclusion: We might never agree on these issues. That’s Okay. We can get along just fine, you with your opinion and I with mine. The point of this correspondence is not to convert one another. The point is to converse with people who have different points of view. That’s how we broaden our minds and become more tolerant. Isn’t that, after all, what religion is all about – loving our neighbors as ourselves? (Galatians 5:14)
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