December 19, 2010 at 9:04am
Same old bunch back in same trouble or even more. The court system needs lock them up and weld door shut.Give them 5-10 years state pen.
December 19, 2010 at 1:04pm
And risk losing all the fees they collect if they release them or continue it? Are you crazy?
December 19, 2010 at 2:09pm
If that's the only side to consider, what would the cost be to taxpayers of keeping more of them incarcerated? We already keep scores of people at the county jail for extended periods of time throughout the year at considerable cost. In a majority of cases I think the county and community come out for the better if criminals pay a fine instead of doing the time.
December 19, 2010 at 7:09pm
Oh, so its ok if they keep doing the crimes..as long as they are paying the fines?! No wonder crime is so bad around here. We mostly see violators get probation.
December 19, 2010 at 10:07pm
Mr. Halpern, I understand what you are saying, but if you fall victim to one of these criminals, you might change your mind. At least if they are in jail they cannot do any harm to the community.
December 20, 2010 at 12:26am
I'd rather foot the bill of keeping them locked up than having to put up with them victimizing people day in and day out. We already pay for them to have public housing, EBT funds, & TennCare (which is commonly defrauded). That's no different than housing them in jail or prison, feeding them, paying their bills, and paying for them to get health care while locked up. The funny thing is that most of the trouble makers can't afford anything so they get hand outs from the good taxpayers, but can always bond out of jail quicker than the paper work is done on the officer's behalf. They'll keep giving out fines and probation, which they won't pay and violate, respectively. What happens when the common criminals next crime costs someone their life or quality thereof?
December 20, 2010 at 12:51pm
a thief does not work a respectable day job to pay his fines and court cost, he steals it.
the drug dealer sells more drugs and the hooker hooks.
So courts who release known criminals back into our communities knowing they will continue there illegal activities, are promoting crime not deterring it.
The key is rehabilitation. Any of these people who can be rehabilitated into productive citizens becomes an assets instead of liabilities to our community. The rest should be incarcerated as long as possible. Rehabilitation is expensive but cheaper than incarceration and both are worth it to allow law abiding citizens to live in peace.
Everyone deserves due process and humane living conditions but I personally believe we afford those proven guilty too many luxuries which drive up the cost to house and contain the undesirables.
December 20, 2010 at 4:12pm
I think ya'll are upset with the wrong people. It is the state lawmakers who set the minimum and maximum penalties. They are also the ones who write the law to require probation for most crimes.
That being said, I don't disagree these people need jail time instead of probation and fines but it's not your court system, law enforcement, or judges who are the problem.
December 20, 2010 at 4:51pm
Rehabilitation is not the answer. No matter how many programs, meetings, probation meetings or interventions you choose to give a habitual criminal, they will 99.9 % of the time always be the same. There may be a few cases here and there, but for the money you spend it is never worth it. Habitual criminals will always tell you what you want to hear to make you believe they have reformed.
People who are alcoholics attend AA meetings for years and never lose the desire for alcohol. Sex offenders all over the country attend meetings, see psychiatrists and never lose the desire to abuse, rape or torture innocent victims. Thieves don't want to work for a living, they want to steal from you because it is easier than work. You will never change what is inside those people no matter how hard you try.
I will 100% agree with you goober that the "proven guilty have too many luxuries".
That is why I believe the key is to make the punishment worse than the crime.
When the criminals are forced to think about what will happen to them if they commit another crime then you will see crime rates drop.
Although we still have the best system in the world, our flaw that is driving the crimes rates up has become in believing that the criminals rights outweighs the victims rights, and that the criminal should be treated more humanely than they treated their victim.
Until we change that, we will remain the same and progressively get worse.
December 20, 2010 at 6:39pm
"The key is rehabilitation. Any of these people WHO CAN BE rehabilitated into productive citizens becomes an assets instead of liabilities to our community."
At the sake of being attacked AGAIN (and again and again...) I beg to differ --I guess you would hang them all on their first offense?
Some offenders of a wide variety of crimes can and have been rehabilitated-proven fact. Choosing which one to spend the effort and money on is the tough decision. So any offenders who can be rehabilitated, should be!
"THE REST (beyond or incapable of rehabilitation) should be incarcerated as long as possible." Humanely without luxuries, glad to see we can agree on something here.
Not sure where you got your facts (even though I have a good idea lol). Of the many published studies of recidivism, most show approximately 2/3 of inmates released from state prisons will commit a serious crime again with 1/2 returning to prison. Many, believe it or not, learn their lesson and conform to the rules of society.
So I do and will always believe their is good and evil ( at varying degrees of course) in us all and every individual deserves a second ( and sometimes even a third) chance.
--compassion will always make us sway to the side of caution on due process--
December 21, 2010 at 6:12am
I am all for compassion and all for rehabilitation. I just don't believe it to be the key to successful drops in crime rates.
And I am not sure where you got your facts, but it is more proven time after time that criminals commit additional crimes over and over again. That is fact beyond dispute by either you or me.
If you think rehabilitation is the key, I suggest you go talk to the parents of the children who have been killed by drunk drivers who had been arrested 5 and 6 times before they finally killed their child.
Or maybe talk to people in the business that are around the rapists, child molesters and serial killers who attend therapy and "rehabilitation" sessions who will say anything to stay out of jail.
You will never, ever get those thoughts or ideas out of those people's head no matter how much you try to rehabilitate them.
And no I wouldn't hang everyone on the first offense. But, I would make the punishment fit the crime. And I would daresay you would have the same feeling if it affected you as well.
Do you honestly think a man who rapes and murders a 13 year old girl deserves rehabilitation? Do you honestly think they deserve a second chance at living in society?
I don't and I never will. But, today's society is all about coddling and rehabilitating and trying to change a person who has evil inside them that a normal person can't comprehend.
When the punishment fits the crime, you will see crime rates drop dramatically!
December 21, 2010 at 7:48am
Frist lets realize that most ( can give stats if needed) of those in trouble with the law are young ( 15 to 30 ) and are drug ( including alcohol ) related. The thief in most cases steals for his drug and most abusive husband abuses while under the influence. These people do desperately need a chance at new direction. I know for a fact, locking these young people up with the hardened criminals is not the answer.
As for the habitual criminal there is only one answer containment or extermination. And those who find pleasure in hideous crimes, especially those against the innocent at heart and those lacking physical strength, deserve the same.
But I want to say my main point was if a judge offers a hooker no rehabilitation, collects some of her ill gotten gains as fines and then releases her, who is her pimp?
Also Cannon12s point that is is not just the judge but the entire system- federal to local.
December 21, 2010 at 7:57am
If you are really interested in this topic and the facts ,search recidivism to find many competent studies on this topic. Also many links into other relevant facts and studies on cause and affect of criminal actions. You will find my numbers on recidivism pretty accurate.
December 21, 2010 at 12:35pm
I will agree in some case rehabilitation might work with simple things like prostitution, casual drug use, the 16 year old who steals a car, etc.
My point was only that for habitual criminals like the guy arrested a couple of weeks ago for his 10th D.U.I. will never change. Neither will the child molester, rapists or serial killers.
And, more importantly when those type of crimes have punishments that fit them, then and only then will you see a reduction in those crimes.
If you want to read two good books on the subject of how the criminal mind works, I would suggest Mind Hunter and Journey into Darkness, both by John Douglas. He was the person that Thomas Harris (Silence of the Lambs and Red Dragon) based his FBI agent on in the book and the movies.
And I know you don't care about my library, but I do have them both and you are more than welcome to them.
They are fascinating books on how the criminal mind works and what is done to catch them. And they might change your mind on rehabilitation.
December 21, 2010 at 5:13pm
Thank you for the offer but I have personally witnessed many successes and failures in rehabilitation and am convinced that ,even if the success rate was cut in half, to see a young person with a dismal, at best, future get new direction and hope is life changing for everyone. Maybe some day you will agree. I think we have agreed from the beginning that many offenders are beyond help and deserve much worst than they will receive. Again I believe enough said --have a nice day
December 21, 2010 at 7:28pm
Bring back the chain gang.guards with pump shot guns an mirrowed sun glasses,an let them clean ditch rows with sling blades,instead of letting them ride around in a truck smoking cigrettes an picking up trash here an there.They can pick up trash as they clean ditches.
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